Thursday, November 30, 2006

Men Suck ???

Speaking of differences in the genders…………I had a really interesting discussion with a female friend recently. During the discussion she trotted out the old familiar line that ‘men do all of their thinking with their penises.’

I know you have heard that one. I think it is so often repeated that it has become generally accepted as true and worse yet considered sophisticated to utter.

I don’t really think there is a rant coming here ….lets call it a purging or challenging discussion. Recognizing I have a faithful female audience (and you know I love you all) I am at some risk here of losing friends, but the general content and tenor of this post is intended to be helpful. Or on the other hand you should know that it is 25 degrees F in Dallas today and I DON”T LIKE THAT.

Is it just me being sensitive or is there an inordinate amount of male bashing going on in the blogsphere? Not only in the blogsphere, but all around me? Are we really so awful that we have to be hammered at every turn?

Let me tell you why I don’t like this phrase “men think with their penises”….I have spent a professional career around men and working with men. We have done considerably wonderful things with our environment, while thinking with brains and not our penises.

When you walk through an airport, attend a movie with surround sound and digital image, fly on spacecraft to the moon, examine the surface of Mars with a mars remote vehicle, cross a gigantic span bridge…and of course I could go on and on…..think of men. We opened those doors for you, along with millions of other doors. We weren’t thinking with our penises. Now of course, you are thinking I am reasoning out of context on this one, since when women say this ‘penis thinking’ thing they are talking about the male sex drive. OK, I’m guilty of that charge, so let’s look at the issue in context.

Did you see the latest brain research? It shows that the area of the brain that processes sexual information, images, fantasy, sexual reasoning and all the rest, is twice as large in men as it is in women. That would be 2X in math terms.

Looking at the biology as a sole causative factor the researchers say it is only natural that men think about sex much more frequently and process information about sex more easily. (and with considerably less drama) As we all know research also shows women have a larger talent and better wired brain for talking, beating males by a 7:2 ratio of words spoken per day, the point being that both genders have strengths and weaknesses.

What bothers me on this one is that men are typically branded as being ‘oafish or even perhaps slimy’ because we think about sex often and find the area of sex talk, imagery and sex engagement an entertaining and worthwhile pursuit, even fun. Maybe we aren’t really thinking with our penises at all. Maybe we are thinking with a motor twice as large as yours and the problem is that your female brain is puttering along below the speed limit? Maybe you could even respect our superior ability and learn something from us?

I’m serious. I know speaking for my male contemporaries that there is so much underlying hostility in the male population due to not only the lack of understanding, but the labeling and rejection that contributes to our undeserved ride on the train to confusion and misunderstanding. There are things we can teach you. There are things you need to know. But it will be necessary to quit constantly bashing us first.

As far as public male bashing goes I sense it is at record levels. There is a backlash coming. As I talk to my male friends I find a level of hostility that will ultimately create a backlash.

Maybe the era of feminism and female chest thumping could gently close itself and bring a new era of mutual respect?

It’s 25 F in Dallas and I am in a pissy mood. I am especially tired of reading blog posts that start out “Men suck……”

Really. I am.

Me and my fellow males are very tired of it. Our 2X sex brains are especially tired of it.


Enemy of the Republic said...

Please know that I don't bash men. When I'm mad, I bash the entire human race. And I bash myself along with them because we are all flawed. There are male behaviors I do find deplorable--locker room talk, demeaning women, but there are female behaviors that are also equally disgusting: wanting rich men, dropping men for no reason, making men do all the effort in initiating a relationship. Sure, I'm generalizing, but that is what happens when we judge people solely on the gender. By the way, I will answer your comment on my blog when I can. You are a person with great insight and I love you too.

Rob said...

7, it's a tolerable 80 F here and I'm feeling comfy. The woman who set you off on this trac perhaps would like a society where everyone is wired the same way, aaarg. It reminds me of the 3 bears, ooh, this one is too hot, and this one is too cold, keep looking and maybe you'll find one that's just right. Maybe she failed psych 101. Primer: males have a chemical connection to their genitals that is ON all the time, while females have a chemical connection that is OFF most of the time. So, instead of worrying about why he's ON and your OFF, replace that lost time with something productive. Instaed, she (and perhaps others) would rather try to make some unsuspecting male with a BIG ? on his forehead feel like something unworthy to be in her presence through no fault of his. sounds a little passive-aggressive to me. It's not utopia yet.

Rob said...

Dear EOTR:
After reading your response, and other postings, I KNOW you are not the type to lash out irresponsibly as the antagonist in Seven's blog. I enjoy all the sensitive, deep thinkers that bless this site. I also cringe when I hear the kinds of sputum you refer to from both sexes, and believe me there seems to be some kind of escalating competition coming from women these days. Sort of, "I can be mo' bad than you."

Rick said...

The blogosphere is female by nature, so it's only natural there would be more bashing going on in this neck o' the woods. Knowing that, I just sit back and scratch, er, watch.

patti_cake said...

I definitely am not of the "men suck" variety. I love men! My best friend (hub) is a man. Some of my favorite bloggers are men.

Jenn said...

Three things:

1. I love men. (with the obvious exception)
2. I recall loving sex.
3. It's -10 here. Flippin' cold.

Seven said...

For the record, I wasn't talking about my blog mates or guests in an individual way. I am serious about we men reaching a point of saturation with what we hear around us. Some of my gender have adopted the impotent rationalization of just assuming "yes, there is something wrong with me." I'm really trying to rally the real men around me as much as I am whining about women. There is only so much 'you guys are slimy and worthless' discussion that is beneficial. The 'men are worthless' voices I hear are all over blogdom and in my social circle...its everywhere.
One of the most difficult things we have to do as a society is recognize we as genders, or we as religions, or we as nations, can be different, but remain respectful and at peace with one another.
All comments above are off the table when we reach the level of abuse, murder, etc. Men historically abuse. I condemn this. When men are just being men and being peaceful about it; that's another thing and not deserving of incessant trash talking because we happen to think about sex a lot.
You are a woman that has earned my respect, I hope that holds value for you. It's the best gift I have to give.

Seven said...

I know you understand what I have said here. I think for we men the negative noise that surrounds us each day has unfortunately become a noise we either meekly accept or just tune out. I believe women actually cause suffering for themselves when they refuse to try and understand male thinking while simultaneoulsy adopting a "I'm right and he is wrong" attitude for every issue that presents.
On the other hand we have the very real possibility that the female's superiority in vocalization skills is what creates the bashing imbalance. Maybe we men are just tolerating what we don't like about women in silence. Meanwhile the women are vocalizing away with a neuron speech transfer 2X the speed of ours.

Seven said...

Fight back man! Let's march on the Feminist headquarters in Seattle; maybe there will be some young chicks there with cute butts!

Love ya girl. You are incapable of hating anything. You are all love; I know this.

I know your deal and unfortunately you are challenged each day with possibly the worst possible representative of my species. I apologize for him on behalf of all normal males and send my support. I know women like sex (firsthand) I am only saying, there are times sex can actually be dealt with in a lighthearted fashion...I don't think the Creator ever intended it to be difficult and dramatic. And....sometimes men are just having fun and our bravado is a big silliness at work....if you give us a really sexually secure woman to deal with, we are likely to tuck tail and skeedaddle.
I love hot weather. I love going naked. I love wearing shorts and a t-shirt all year. When its 25 degrees, I'm just flat out cranky! Love ya.

Enemy of the Republic said...

My husband gets angry at the "men suck" crowd too. I often have to remind him that the women who say this have been very hurt and they haven't transcended that pain from it's locality--in other words, there are some ever loving pooches out there and they may have been the hurtful breed, but don't knock the canines! Can I just throw this one out there for possible debate? My husband has a big ego--sometimes it works well and sometimes it is a curse. He doesn't handle criticism well. So I'm wondering: the men who are sick of hearing the females roar on, it a similar issue to that of my husband in which he has trouble hearing his flaws? I say that with respect. I don't like criticism either, and I tend to take it personally, but he really has a meltdown.

Just curious. By the way, thank you, Rob.

Seven said...

The distinct ring of truth is in there. Another female friend talks a lot about ego. I often don't completely understand her concepts about ego and its integration into our discussions, but I recognize she is having an important thought and that it just isn't reaching me.
There is the real possibility that due to the male's lower skills of speech that we merely sit in silence or just don't know how to articulately protest the bashing. Meanwhile women, using advanced brain areas in speech, feel the need to publicly express their frustrations endlessly.
We (males)are also prone to interpret the criticism of flaws as being subjective. What is flaw to the female observer may not be accepted as flaw by the male. It might be ego; it might be honest difference of opinion.
Now for me...I have no ego whatsoever.....hehe....wanna see my muscles?

Reach said...

My day has been busy and I regret not reading this early on in the day. If I had read it I might have said, "Wow, you've done it now"; however, knowing your reader base as I do- I can see that everybody has returned with their usual thought provoking views.
Though I am not an expert on the subject of sex, as I protray in times of suduction, I have studied a variety of research. With the purpose of sex being procreation and the female holding the role of conception and gestation, the males role was to spread a seed in order to strengthen the tribal population; thereby, ensuring survival of the group. Unfortunately, each trait has carried forward into the 21st Century and civilization frowns upon promiscuity within a two party union.
Next, I would say the "Winds of Change" are upon us. I have witnessed, since I am single, a rise in aggressive female behavior when attempting to "catch" a mate. I would estimate that we are at approximately 40% role reversal as these women try to gain attention- much like we did when we were teenagers.


Seven said...

Yes I have been reading this new information about the young girls. Quite honestly it makes me wish they were around in my HS days! On the other hand having to reject proposals as women have had to do for years is probably much harder work than we men realize.
I know the post is edgy. At some point a red flag waving can bring some alert even if there is a measure of hyperbole attached. I think our gender has done some meek lying down on this issue. I'm wantiing to create a statement from our gender that this incessant public bashing is unseemly and shallow. I don't want to lose friendships I cherish, just arouse a good old fashioned discussion of our collective values within the society.

Enemy of the Republic said...

In my husband's case, he has both muscles and brain. And he is very smart, and dare I say, he is a very high quality human being. So I do have faith in his strength. I've just noticed that he really falls apart when key people criticize him: one time one of his brothers went at him (they are very similar) and he noted that this brother "thinks I'm inferior." Years ago when I got on his case about something, he said: "You have contempt for me." So I saw that for him, this is an issue. Yes, a lot of females make a big deal of the male ego. I actually see the typical analysis of such as men trying to compensate for insecurities, similar to how women can get very competitive with each other over looks and who has the man. In my husband's case, I saw something a bit more troubling that the standard male ego yak. So I am careful with it, but at the same time, he does know that there are times his bubble must be burst.

Seven said...

You sprang open a whole different well of thought inside me regarding men and insecurities. I am going to jot it into an e-note so I don't forget and I will try to post a discussion on that issue. I know you are on to something withthat thought. We are very often insecure if we do not have the 'answers'. We usually miss that our women do not always want answers. Usually empathy, helpfulness and discussion go the proper distance and the insecurity was unneccesary from the start. I hear you. (I think)

Rob said...

EOTR, it's gratifying to see you have a deep concern for hubby's "flaw", if we can call it that. If those closest to him are walking on egg-shells, then I don't think he's going to be able deal with this very well when the bubble bursts. Sounds to me like he's got it together in all other departments, so it's time for him to hand over the curse to somebody who can deal with it and let Him handle it. Sometimes those who are critical expose more about themselves than the object of their critism. Allowing for a pregnant silence before reacting to potentially harmful words may be a useful tactic.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I leave for a few days, and look what I walk back in to! There are jerks of either sex out there, I suppose, but I agree with you. I really, really don't like statements that generalize negatively. It rubs against the grain for me.

As for the weather, I'm enjoying this cold stuff! I am always miserable in hot weather. sighhh. I guess there is no future for us, is there? Dang. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Sex good.

Enemy of the Republic said...

Funny you should say that, Rob. He and I have both noted that this is an area in which God needs to do his work; it's an issue of pride--we all have it, but in the sin/flaw department, some of us have different measures of what are the weaknesses of the flesh and mind. He does know this. He does read his Bible and when I say read this book, he usually does. I just haven't found the right one yet. But I tell you, even though I mention it on this blog, he's come a long way, even in a short few weeks. And I want to reiterate that I see this as his deal, not the usual "male ego" situation that women often complain about. I've seen women with big egos as well. Pride is pride.

Seven said...

LOL...hehe good one

You LIKE the cold? Are you mentally healthy? Wait a minute, I know from your posts and comments that you are wise and reasoned....why would you like the cold??? Counseling is suggested.

Seven said...

Postscript: I guess we could hook up so long as you agree to be miserable.

Anonymous said...

I think that "Men suck..." and "Men think with their penises" is a catch all phrase uttered by women frustrated at one man, or at life in general. It makes it easier to not look at ourselves as being the cause of whatever our life's problem is at the moment.

While I am oriented toward women emotionally and physically, I have to say that, for the most part, I like men over women, in the social and day-to-day sense.

Men seem less complicated. Men don't tend to tak perceived slights as personally as women do. Men don't laugh at or about other men behind their backs like women do. Men don't judge other men by their clothes or their hair style, for the most part.

While some men certainly can be petty at times, I don't see men as being nearly as vindictive as women tend to be when relationships end (unless they're abusive or control freaks -- and those come in both genders).

I believe that where the problems come in is that, because of the way we're wired, men often don't understand what the big deal is over "just being held," or "intimacy without sex." To men, sex IS love with the woman the are married to, or having a long(ish)-term relationship with.

I don't think men suck. I think mean people suck. I think stupid people suck. I think arrogant people suck. I think greedy people suck. I think dishonest people suck.

And those types of people that suck come in all flavors, both genders.

Seven said...

I hear you. Interestingly as I have gotten older and wiser I am more understanding of the comfort of the 'cuddle'. There is so much for each gender to take from one another in lessons of life, so much to learn about how the other thinks and responds. The tenor of the post is more one of raising a red flag to what I see as a national course of male bashing that has reached crazy, yat acceptable proportions. At some point we men need to just declare 'enough is enough'. We are not evil monsters. I have a knowledge, based on many years of observation, that our society becomes what we instruct it to become. I don't want young boys being told that they are useless boneheads doused with slimey or perverted thoughts about sex and exist to be constantly bashed at every turn. Ok....I think I just purged again, while you have very wisely offered exactly what I seek in your thoughtful response.
I appreciate you....and agree that bad behavior comes in all sizes, forms and GENDERS.

Anonymous said...

seven, I used to be a stick person, and I was cold all the time. About 10 years ago I unfortunately gained weight and simultaneously reached the age that many women experience a switch in their internal thermostat. I can tolerate the dry heat of NM, but not the drippy sauna created by Midwest weather. Soooo . . . let's see now . . . I'll agree to be miserable if you leave TX. Ouch! Owie! Quit that! I was just kidding! Man, you are sensitive about gender slams AND Texas. I gotta think this over. I'll get back to ya.

Back to the discussion of the post, I agree 100% with Pat's comment. During the course of my working years I usually found men easier to work with because the tend to be more straight-forward. My social group was a balance of females and males (not in pairs or couples, but those who were “friends” regardless of our separate, personal relationships). Later in my career, I found more women coming to be compatible with my thoughts. This is probably because of the field I chose to pursue in my midlife, Clinical Social Work. We are taught empathy, respect for differences, to shut our own mouths so we can actually listen. We become both sensitized and de-sensitized to traits in others. Thus, the women I worked with seemed more in step with the gender-neutral standards which composed the greater part of my life. My professional world gained more balance with my personal one. I found that I could enjoy the company of and work ethics of both genders with much more frequency. These days, with the loss of my husband and my retirement, I look for PEOPLE whose personalities I like, regardless of gender, and I hope my new social circle will include many of both.

On a related topic, when asked if they prefer raising boys or girls, most folks I’ve talked with say boys are much easier. Yes, they are, but I preferred raising girls, as odd as that may seem. I frequently wondered about what was troubling my sons. Even when asked, they commonly said “nothing.” With my girls, I almost always knew what was afloat and usually could help them deal with it. Girls, especially in their teens, tell you EXACTLY what is tipping the scales! Not that I could solve it, but it helped to understand the moment (or in some cases, the hours of moments!!).

Bottom line for me is . . . I simply like people and the people I like most are KIND. They avoid slurring labels about other people. Period.

Seven said...

You just described our children. My son, if his clothes were on fire, would describe it as nothing being wrong. Our daughter would alert us at the first hint of heat or smoke and advise us of all the details of the entire horrific episode, then tell us a second time with new details. Too funny.
I love Texas.

BEG said...

I often wonder if the male bashers are jealous that they cannot be free with their own sexuality due to the overwhelming condemnation they would receive from both genders. So they have a lot of anger to spew.
Perhaps if they were comfortable with their own sexuality there would be no need to bash males regardless of their desires.
What is the point of bashing anyway?
There are always two sides. It is most often easier to bash than to examine oneself.
Most of the time, a person’s negative behavior is about themself; the subject being bashed is just a target.

There is also the herd mentality. To be included in conversations, be it blogging or in person, many find it easier to go along with the crowd than to say what they really believe. Many others simple do not want to think, it is easier to agree than seek their own truths.
Similarities occur in the political arena.

jack nasty said...

I read each of enemy's responses, thank you, enemy, for saying so beautifully what I wanted to express.

Rob said...

Nice to hear from BEG. Do you have your own blog?

beg said...

No Rob, I do not have a blog.
I am inclined to use the cicumlocution style of writing and thus would totally confuse my would-be readers. Seven is always trying to reel me in.

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